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标题: [原创]抬杆与切线 [打印本页]
作者: xuchunxi 时间: 2006-8-11 10:46
标题: [原创]抬杆与切线
<p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="LINE-HEIGHT: 20pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center; mso-line-height-rule: exactly;"><b><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">抬杆猛与切线的关系</span></b><b><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;">—</span></b><b><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">与飞豹钓友商榷</span></b><b><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;"><p></p></span></b></p><p></p><p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="LINE-HEIGHT: 20pt; mso-line-height-rule: exactly;"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">我喜欢参加京钓网野钓组的活动,如昨日之沙龙。</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;">4</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">小时,尤感不足。</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;"><p></p></span></p><p></p><p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="LINE-HEIGHT: 20pt; mso-line-height-rule: exactly;"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">愉快之余,收益亦非浅。如江湖钓友所提之境界,然之矣。我曾将“醉翁之意不在酒”,篡改为“渔翁之意不在鱼,在山水间也”,以附庸风雅。可是欲望,种种欲望的诱惑何如?不过,我们“伟大的导师”恩格斯不有言道:“欲望是人类进步的杠杆”乎?马克思主义的深刻的教义,我是全然不懂,但这句话似乎也是平实有理。</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;"><p></p></span></p><p></p><p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="LINE-HEIGHT: 20pt; mso-line-height-rule: exactly;"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">想起来了,杠杆,飞豹钓友论及抬杆猛与切线的内在关系时提到了杠杆。结论是没有错。我只是对飞豹钓友所述抬杆猛与切线的内在关系的描述,有少许不同看法。这里提出来以期指正。</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;"><p></p></span></p><p></p><p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="LINE-HEIGHT: 20pt; mso-line-height-rule: exactly;"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">静平衡时</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>F2*N*a=F1*a </span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">故</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>F2=F1/N<p></p></span></p><p></p><p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="LINE-HEIGHT: 20pt; mso-line-height-rule: exactly;"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">杆梢上的力很小。</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;"><p></p></span></p><p></p><p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="LINE-HEIGHT: 20pt; mso-line-height-rule: exactly;"><line id="_x0000_s1027" style="LEFT: 0px; POSITION: absolute; TEXT-ALIGN: left; Z-INDEX: 2;"></line><line></line><line id="_x0000_s1028" style="LEFT: 0px; POSITION: absolute; TEXT-ALIGN: left; Z-INDEX: 3;"></line><line></line><line id="_x0000_s1029" style="LEFT: 0px; POSITION: absolute; TEXT-ALIGN: left; Z-INDEX: 4;"></line><line></line><line id="_x0000_s1030" style="LEFT: 0px; POSITION: absolute; TEXT-ALIGN: left; Z-INDEX: 5;"></line><line></line><line id="_x0000_s1032" style="LEFT: 0px; POSITION: absolute; TEXT-ALIGN: left; Z-INDEX: 7;"></line><line></line><line id="_x0000_s1035" style="LEFT: 0px; POSITION: absolute; TEXT-ALIGN: left; Z-INDEX: 10;"></line><stroke></stroke><stroke></stroke><line></line><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;"> F1为手上的力,F2为杆梢上的力,a为杆底到支点的长度,N*a为支点到杆梢的长度。</span><line id="_x0000_s1042" style="LEFT: 0px; POSITION: absolute; TEXT-ALIGN: left; Z-INDEX: 17;"></line><stroke></stroke><stroke></stroke><line></line><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;"> <p></p></span></p><p></p><p></p><br clear="all" style="mso-ignore: vglayout;"/><p class="MsoNormal" style="LINE-HEIGHT: 20pt; mso-line-height-rule: exactly;"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman';">关键是杆梢的行程是杆底行程的</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;">N</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">倍(为了简单起见,设鱼杆是刚体)。</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;"><p></p></span></p><p></p><p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="LINE-HEIGHT: 20pt; mso-line-height-rule: exactly;"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">鱼所受的力</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;">F<p></p></span></p><p></p><p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="LINE-HEIGHT: 20pt; mso-line-height-rule: exactly;"><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>F=F</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">钩</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;"> -<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>F</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">水阻</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;">=ma<p></p></span></p><p></p><p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="LINE-HEIGHT: 20pt; mso-line-height-rule: exactly;"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">鱼从静止状态在短时间内被迫移动</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;">N*L</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">的距离须作加速运动</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;"><p></p></span></p><p></p><p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="LINE-HEIGHT: 20pt; mso-line-height-rule: exactly;"><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;">NL=0.5*a*t<sup>2</sup></span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">;</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;">a=2N*L/ t<sup>2<p></p></sup></span></p><p></p><p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="LINE-HEIGHT: 20pt; mso-line-height-rule: exactly;"><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;">F</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">钩</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;">= F</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">水阻</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;">+m*2N*L/ t<sup>2<p></p></sup></span></p><p></p><p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="LINE-HEIGHT: 20pt; mso-line-height-rule: exactly;"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">从上式可以看到鱼越大(当然),行程越长,时间越短,</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;">ma</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">越大。</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;">F</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">水阻</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">大体上与鱼的大小和鱼的速度有关,速度越快,阻力越大。</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;"><p></p></span></p><p></p><p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="LINE-HEIGHT: 20pt; mso-line-height-rule: exactly;"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">以上是理想化的状态的简单描述。</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;"><p></p></span></p><p></p><p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="LINE-HEIGHT: 20pt; mso-line-height-rule: exactly;"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">结论:杆底的小行程,带来杆梢的短时间内的大行程,以至于鱼钩或鱼线或其他部件,受到鱼的加速度和速度所引发的相当大的力道的冲击以至于崩溃。抬杆那一瞬间</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;">F</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">水阻</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">几乎为零,这就是猛抬杆,但如行程短就不容易切线的肝要所在。</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;"><p></p></span></p><p></p><p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="LINE-HEIGHT: 20pt; mso-line-height-rule: exactly;"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman";">然否</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;">?</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="LINE-HEIGHT: 20pt; mso-line-height-rule: exactly;"><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;">(注:原有图,但传不上去,也就删去了)</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="LINE-HEIGHT: 20pt; mso-line-height-rule: exactly;"><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;"> <p></p></span></p><p></p><p></p>
[此贴子已经被作者于2006-8-11 10:48:28编辑过]
作者: 田螺 时间: 2006-8-11 10:49
这么复杂啊,还有复杂的计算.
作者: xuchunxi 时间: 2006-8-11 11:05
简单理想化的结果。实际情况更复杂。但,我想大意似乎是如此。慢抬杆,行程再长,钩也挂不住鱼,道理也是一样。
作者: 肥师 时间: 2006-8-11 11:07
和飞豹抬杠您算是找对人了.............
作者: 河边老等 时间: 2006-8-11 11:10
[em06][em06][em06][em09][em09][em09]
作者: 忆江南 时间: 2006-8-11 11:13
是道力学题呀.
作者: a4岛人 时间: 2006-8-11 11:49
对了,手杆钓鱼时,多余的掉线是沉入水中,还是杆尖翘起悬在空中比较好?
作者: 都市游鱼 时间: 2006-8-11 12:02
开始进入深层次探讨了!
作者: bollin(柏林) 时间: 2006-8-11 12:16
<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>a4岛人</i>在2006-8-11 11:49:00的发言:</b><br/>对了,手杆钓鱼时,多余的掉线是沉入水中,还是杆尖翘起悬在空中比较好?</div><p>要看鱼情!抽浮、打快,不压线可以加快速度。慢、糗还是压线实在些</p>
作者: 可乐 时间: 2006-8-11 12:20
<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>a4岛人</i>在2006-8-11 11:49:00的发言:</b><br/>对了,手杆钓鱼时,多余的掉线是沉入水中,还是杆尖翘起悬在空中比较好?</div><p>风线入水</p><p></p>
作者: 姚景龙 时间: 2006-8-11 12:45
<p>我的体会:</p><p>刺鱼-----提竿-----遛鱼----抄鱼</p>
作者: 肥师 时间: 2006-8-11 13:37
<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>a4岛人</i>在2006-8-11 11:49:00的发言:</b><br/>对了,手杆钓鱼时,多余的掉线是沉入水中,还是杆尖翘起悬在空中比较好?</div><p></p><p>入水!(练杆小鱼不算阿)</p><p>不是别的,不压线提杆:无鱼=子线大线易缠绕;中鱼=易切线!还是从漂附近切线。</p>
作者: 未晓雨 时间: 2006-8-11 14:45
<p><font size="5">'设鱼杆是刚体',是非常不准确的,渔竿关键在搏大鱼时起作用的就是非刚性的竿身弯曲形变储能.</font></p><p><font size="5">渔竿不如说是一个弹簧片.</font></p><p><font size="5">只有在抬竿的瞬间(比如说:百分之一秒级别的时间段以内),可以近似认定是接近非发生形变的刚体.</font></p>
作者: 汉堡包 时间: 2006-8-11 16:22
<p>各位非常专业的研究!佩服!</p><p>力学是一个非常非常深奥的专业领域!受可变因素的影响很大.我认为:咱钓鱼只要能理解其中的原理就差不多了,关键是提杆的习惯要好,力道要恰到好处,有速度,有劲道,但不能粗暴,在国术中有种发力叫阴劲,这个我讲不清,只能意会不可言传,建议钓友先练太极再钓鱼.呵呵</p>以上纯瞎扯,诸位不可当真啊![em01][em01][em01]
作者: 老欧 时间: 2006-8-11 17:58
<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>未晓雨</i>在2006-8-11 14:45:00的发言:</b><br/><p><font size="5">'设鱼杆是刚体',是非常不准确的,渔竿关键在搏大鱼时起作用的就是非刚性的竿身弯曲形变储能.</font></p><p><font size="5">渔竿不如说是一个弹簧片.</font></p><p><font size="5">只有在抬竿的瞬间(比如说:百分之一秒级别的时间段以内),可以近似认定是接近非发生形变的刚体.</font></p></div><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>踏涡乐是受教育乐。</p><p></p><p>谢谢。</p><p></p><p></p>
作者: zhongliyan 时间: 2006-8-11 23:25
<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>汉堡包</i>在2006-8-11 16:22:00的发言:</b><br/><p>,关键是提杆的习惯要好,力道要恰到好处,有速度,有劲道,但不能粗暴,</p></div><p><font size="4">连竿连口时还好,一到糗鱼时漂子一动就忘了。</font></p>[em04][em04]
作者: 枯法师 时间: 2006-8-14 15:19
大力提杆导致切线不是水阻造成,而是鱼的重力和鱼体受到向上的拉力时受到水的阻力,提杆的爆发力完全可能导致切断子线。
作者: xuchunxi 时间: 2006-8-14 17:03
确实要克服重力的一部分(如果垂直向上提杆,则是全部)。
作者: 江湖大哥 时间: 2006-8-14 20:02
<p><font face="Verdana" color="#61b713"><strong>xuchunxi</strong>钓友是工程专家,思考问题很严谨。既然钓鱼,竿总是要抬的啊,抬竿的目的一是刺鱼,二是要让竿跟鱼之间形成角度,因此用力要适当,反复实践不是难事。</font></p>
作者: zcc520517 时间: 2006-8-14 20:17
<p>是特殊的力学考题?还是高等数学的“牛顿-莱布尼兹公式??”太复杂了!!!不懂!!深了!!服了!</p>[em06][em06][em06]
[此贴子已经被作者于2006-8-14 20:19:15编辑过]
作者: 铁观音 时间: 2006-8-14 20:33
<font size="6">深了去了!</font>
作者: 苇追 时间: 2006-8-15 11:15
有点晕
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